The Dangers of Counterdependency – When You Never Need Anyone

Hi Harley,
Very good article, thank you very much.
I have a question though. I’m involved in relationships with a counter-dependent person. What is the best way to help them? How to approach it while having my own needs met in the relationships as well.
Thank you,
Jacklyn

Hi, Harley.
Thank you so much for providing solution to counter-dependency. I recently broke up with my ex-boyfriend and i soon realized that i am very emotionally dependent to my partner. i find myself suffocating when i am not busy and being single right now. i also realize that my past relationship was a counter-dependent and codependent relationship.
Thank you,
Ellie

I am 52 and have been with my partner for 16 years. I googled ‘power struggle in relationship’ and found all about counterdependence. I think we are still stuck in the power struggle stage of the relationship! My partner has always drunk heavily, although still heavy by normal people’s standards, his drinking is a lot better than it used to be. I attended AlAnon for a short while to address issues of codependency, but never felt I fitted the ‘helpless’ profile of the codependent, when I am highly competent and independent minded. Although I have always been in a relationship since I was about in my late teens, I have never had children or married , (I assume as this would involve moving into a more ‘adult’ world, which I am not that keen on!) The counterdependent characteristics fit me to a tee and I have also always been highly anxious (probably having an undiagnosed anxiety disorder). Although I have previously had a highly successful career doing something my mother wanted me to do, I have had difficulty in getting myself out into the world doing my new career which is more suited to my personality but which seems to provoke a lot of disabling fear in me and lack of confidence. I have stopped speaking to my mum and sister 12 years ago because they both have been quite nasty to me my whole life and have found myself quite lonely and sorry for myself as though I really am on my own, although more recently I have been able to reach out to friends more and involve them in my new career which involves needing to practise on people..

Thank you for your eye-opening article..

x

Hello.I realize for years im co dependent due to past abuse from ex’s/friends and teenage neglect by my parents. I met a guy recently. He told me hes never had a girlfriend before. He told me he doesnt want to keep having sex or kiss me because he doesnt want to have a girlfriend..He says mean things (maybe because his sense of humor) and tells me to shut up if im not even saying anything at all. He cant sleep or relax when im around..He tells me to leave his house whenever i come in. I have to tell him no over and over again till he stops asking me.. We spent 10 hours together enjoying eachothers company on new years at his place after i got through to him…. He seems like he wants me when he stares into my eyes And lets me kiss him before and after sex..Then when he starts smoking weed he doesnt want to kiss me anymore and tells me im annoying him. He has no friends or really much family. He called me clingy and apologized cuz he said that was mean and gave me a tight hug. Now we just dont talk and its hard to get him off my mind… Hes 29 im 22. I feel like this might be a sign of a codependent wanting counterdependent?

Hi Harley,
I recently ended my relationship with the person I love. We dated for a year, broke up, and then quickly rekindled and began a untitled relationship. After about a year and a half of this, I wanted more. I wanted a more stable, serious relationship. When I proposed this he said he didn’t want to go any further. That although he enjoyed our relationship, he did not feel anything for me beyond attraction. I was shocked and confused. I felt that our relationship was close, we were a near perfect match, and we brought out the best in each other.
After intense research I have reason to believe he is counter-dependent. He has childhood trauma that I believe has cause him to be this way.
So my question is how can I help him? How do I know if he truly does not want to be with me or if he is rejecting me because he fears I will let him down?

-Anonymous

Hi, Harley!
I consider myself a counterdependent and would like share my opinion and experience. I hope, you would fine it useful.

I don’t find counterdependency a disease that should be treated. I truly WANT TO STAY a counterdependent! For me that is the best way to keep myself and my feelings safe – safe from disappointment and whatever bad another person may do. I don’t agree that counterdependents and particularly, myself should be ‘helped’. Due to negative experiences I would expect it to be much more stressful to have intimacy in relationship than to have ‘faked’ relationships. Sometimes, though, I could dream about relationship in which you are totally sure that your partner will never ever harm you. The thing is nobody is perfect and can never cater to my needs and feelings to such extent. I am very vulnerable and can suspect any phrase, behaviour, look to be ‘bad’. Also ‘totally sure’ for me means ‘partner is totally controlled’; it’s crazy that sufficient control is when you read partner’s thoughts, which is impossible.
The roots of such need ‘to control’ and ‘to be sure’ rely in abusive behaviour of parents in childhood and adolescence. Particularly, my father (NPD at very least) gained a sadistic pleasure from demeaning me physically and emotionally. He was abused in his childhood as well. As I got used to overt assault and covert put downs, I started to see demeaning in behaviour of all the people; this imprint can never go away!
I am very sensitive to any abuse and aggression, even very covert techniques; I see it where it really takes place and where it never took place. Thus, I have to make distance from other people to save my emotions; to reassure myself partner is insignificant to me and I don’t need him at all. It also implies to make as much as possible relationships, that can build a sense of ‘social success’ that are actually shallow, though, for outside world they may seem ‘deep’; these relationships can make me feel I can be all right even without the partner. I really don’t want to have very deep relationship, as I fear of being humiliated or taken an advantage of my sincerity. Also it is easier to break up if you never let partner to your soul and didn’t tell many things about yourself (had a mask or false self).
Earlier I used to be co-dependent in most of times, though. In adolescence I was engaged in a relationship with a NPD partner which ended very tragically for me, though I trusted and loved partner, catered to his needs and had a serious attachment (or dependency). After NPD partner abandoned me, I was shocked with his cruelty, depressed and wanted to commit a suicide. This experience and bad social situation at that time (as I moved to another country far away from home) made me want to avoid codependency at any means. So, after the relationship with NPD and abusive environment during that bad period I made a conscious choice to become a counterdependent ( I didn’t know the terms at that time).
To sum up, I find counterdependency the best way to deal with aggressive environment and negative experiences. I don’t want to be ‘helped to overcome’ it. I feel better to feel independent and I think other counterdependents as well. Counterdependents can’t heal from past traumas, as they are deeply imprinted in personality and shape perception of the world. Don’t cure us!

This is so random for me to do, but I am moved by your article.
I am both codependent and counter-dependent, and I am in a 15 yr relationship with someone who is also the same, but with psychotic grandiose delusion and other exciting attributes.
We are both incredibly caring and intelligent; this is the only way we have lasted this long. I am ready to change / move on and am making actions to this, but its tricky with so much going on.
My parents divorced when I was 1. My dad raised me, but was fairly absent working long hours of a Dr. I am the youngest of three girls. We mostly raised ourselves to some degree. He has a highly controlling/paranoid personality.

I have been a serial monogamist my whole life. Starting at 14, my first relationship was 3 yrs, followed by 4yrs, followed by 4, followed by 3, then 4, then…. Finally my current partner for 15, but with another person for 4 yrs in the middle, cause we broke up and got back together. Now I feel ready to move out again and start over at 40. I’m lost and trapped. I am censored. I don’t get to play music. We don’t talk. We just sit. No sex, barely touching. I can’t get him to tell me his dreams or anything, so we can even see if our future desires are similar. He is always maxed out, tired, and extremely paranoid. We whisper in our home. He always looks at the windows as if someone else is listening when we whisper. I am more and more dead every day.
Is it him? Is it me? Is it the co/counter dependency? Is it the psychosis? Are we just truly incompatible?
He wont share and I share too much.

I Never feel like I am good enough, but always know that I am. This is incredibly confusing.
The abandonment issues from parents caused the revolving door of shifting dependency. I feel like I am hoping for the true love that will just be honest and I am aware of and open to doing the work. This causes the caring/codependent side of me to charm my love. Then because he is counter-dependent in his actions, mixed with psychosis and crazymaking, we flip flop! I start to self protect, and he becomes needy.

We have so much time invested, but we are not happy. We can’t understand why we can’t find our happiness. It’s the saddest thing in the world.
He honestly believes he is positive and supportive, yet he is so negative and filled with insecurity and stress and anxiety. It is starting to have an effect on me! I have had moments where I am not myself from being pushed to the extreme edge!!! I have had some DARK thoughts. This is so sad. Anyone looking at us can see that we love each other….

I am aware of my issues, constantly looking for what may be there and how to improve myself/communication. Many years of therapy from a variety of people. He calls it getting his head shrunk… I respond by saying, “I must have a really tiny head then! Does it look small?”
He says nothing about ever taking any responsibility, and usually points the finger. It’s like he cannot see what he is doing/not doing.
When I try to break up or push for resolutions, he flip-flops from kinda scary totally freaking out to crying and needy in the span if seconds. I end up always staying, waiting for him to find his way…. This is our cycle! Ugh!!
I got my own stuff to work on and figure out, but with this time and love we share, how do I really know when to give up? We might as well be married, but we aren’t. We do have deep love, and he may have suffered a trauma that was a catalyst to the psychosis, which is another reason I struggle to leave. How can I give up on someone I love so much in his time of need?

Except he does nothing to help himself improve or for our relationship. He flips back to total epicentric behaviors again and starts making all his decisions alone again, even though they affect both of us.
My lifelong issue is when and how to value myself as much as I value other people and how can I reconcile my absolute insecurity with the knowledge that I am also a total goddess? (as are all women)

I’m not expecting an answer or anything, really. Just sharing as an offering to those like me. You are not alone.

I have recently begun psycotherapy with a relational psycotherapist. I think my issues relate to emotional abuse and emotional neglect from my mother. I am terrified of becoming dependant on my therapist, I’m only a few months in and already feel I should quit. Any advice?

I am a counter-dependent. Always have been as have two of my other siblings. Father was alcoholic, never tender or around very much and then when he was, he was abusive to me espencially both physically and mentally. I can never remrmber my mother hugging me!!?? My gandmother came to be the one person who cared about me, so my mother mostly detached or looking to us, her children, to take care of her. Sexually abused x 1; impacted hurst and loss of control even more. Helped me get through college however, since the abuser was a physician in our town. So, for a time did what I needed to do to get by. Pretty much took care of myself. Now have lived with someone for over 40 years; very kind and giving. She is getting older now, not as functional; most things fall on me. I have been successful in work accomplishing my PhD, but have loved fwork. Always told not to tell my business; to pay my own way. I have had ongoing acquaintance friends but always have kept some distance. Many can be users and hurt others; especially those who are better takers than givers. Saddest thing is that as my siblings and SOB have gotten older and ill, the patterns have emerged more, certainly reflecting our fear of being hurt even more. I have many of hallmark symptoms, i.e., know it all nature, have a hard time receiving, am bossy, pushy at times; Have gone after what I need at times. But good to siblings and have been there for them except as I am now getting older, they perceive me more into myself. Almost angry at me for not able to meet their needs. So obviously this gr and dev issue cont into later life, what a challenge for me in this stage later in life when I do need others more to help me meet my needs that I always did, will be anticipating a new book or article addressing this stage. I uded to avoid conflict- learned it makes one so fearful. Now face fear to control the anxiety. Loneliness is more now though….

There’s just something so depressingly predictable about my love life and articles like this almost seem to make it worse. None of what I’ve read here today is a surprise to me, not really, and yet I’ve sought it out because even though yet another promising relationship has failed, I’m sat here wondering whether or not I really *need* therapy.
I got together with this woman who I thought was amazing but after two short months it’s all come crashing down. I’m counter, she’s co. And we knew this. We went into it with our eyes wide open. On the third date she said, oh oh, you’re an avoidant and I’m an anxious. People like us are eternally drawn into the anxious avoidant trap. But I was so into her that I said, no way, we’ll make it work, if we know our blind spots, we’ll be fine. That’s not how it went.
I’ve already spent thousands of pounds on therapy and I’m still stuck in the same old place. I don’t mind spending money on therapy if it works. I want to get well! But I’m so unsure of everything I don’t know what to do next. I’ve gone cold on a number of inquiries I made in the aftermath of this latest failed relationship. Reading this, I’m reminded that I definitely have this problem and I definitely want it fixed.
A very helpful article, despite my opening salvo, thanks.

I’m a child of divorce. My mother was always a childlike and dependent person who couldn’t provide for me. My father was only concerned with making his 11-years younger new wife happy, and didn’t care about how she treated me. He often told me that he put a roof over my head and that I couldn’t be unhappy as I wasn’t beaten with a switch as he was as a child. I became very into survivalist books and played in the woods a lot. I fantasized about living in the Canadian wilderness as an adult, by myself.

I got a STEM degree, after many years of struggle with no help, and climbed out of poverty. I find myself intensely distrustful of other people and I have issues with asking for anything from anyone. I am often cold to my husband when he seeks attention. I find myself the rock for other peoples, who don’t seem to have issues with asking me for help. I have issues with femininity as my female role models were very lacking and often think of myself as borderline FTM. I do my own car work as I am certain I will be ripped off if I go to mechanics. And I am intensely lonely.

This article has opened my eyes quite a bit to a consequence of my childhood I hadn’t considered before.

Harley,
Is the suicide rate higher for people with Counterdependency?  I had a tumultuous childhood as one of nine kids; Went into the Army and served in war; Got married to a codependent for 20 years which produced 2 children (ages 18 & 20); recently got divorced which was such a relief because I was essentially made invisible for the duration of the marriage but since the marriage ended my kids stopped all communication with me from the manipulative help of the ex of course.
The inescapeble lonliness, depression and anxiety then resulting despair makes long for the afterlife. Although I’m not in despair at the current time-being but probably one more job loss away from it.

Hi,
I have qualifications in psychology and am amazed at how long I was suffering (and making others suffer) counter dependence without realising it! I think the nature of the problem makes it so hard to identify and seek help for, as we don’t need anyone, do we? Identifying the childhood influences is very tricky though, and although having started therapy can see this as being a long journey.
Nice treatise on the subject.
Regards

I initially thought I was just counter-dependant but now having read a very good textbook on personality disorders am convinced I am 100% Avoidant personality disorder (this is not Dr. Google, nor hypochondria speaking here BTW…). Although it probably comes across as a little anxious, the vignettes in this this book ALL described me!!!
I guess there are commonalities between the two, but I am definitely avoidant.
Is there a resource you could recommend for this disorder? I feel like I have wasted my life (and definitely all my therapy) waiting this long to work this out!

Hello! Just read this article and was quite shocked to see how well it describes me. I do have an extreme difficult time to trust others and only recently I became aware that this is the result of being raised by a narcissistic mother.
It is said to say that I have all the traits of counter-dependency. What makes me even sadder is that I have opened up recently with my siblings because I needed help and the results of it just made me more determined to never do it again – criticism, judgement, finger pointing plus a lot of talk behind my back, that eventualy comes to my knowledge anyway. I don’t feel safe around them at all, if possible would cease all contact and move to Jupiter.
It’s hard when you are working to overcome emotional obstacles and people around you push you down. It’s almost like they want me to be miserable all the time.
Anyway…great article. Really helpful. Apologies for the outburst.

My counter dependent girlfriend recently (through therapy) has healed enough from her divorce to realize she could open up her heart enough think about moving in with or marrying someone someday. I am a codependent who openly acknowledges this and is in therapy also. I am making progress.

She broke up with me to see the world with her new outlook. We were apart for 2 months. Then she called in a panic that she realized she left out of fear. She knew that we were very good for each other and was afraid that her new outlook would bring her to a deeper relationship faster than she wanted (or something like that… it was her counter dependency freaking out).

Last night we saw each other for the first time since the breakup. And we both feel a little numb today. I’m feeling scared because I know this woman and I love her, but I realize the relationship is damaged by her actions. They caused my codependency to flair up.

We both want to see if this relationship can work because we communicate so well together. We both love each other deeply. But these dependency issues run deep. What would be a smart next step?

Hi
Thank you for the extremely helpful post !
Could you share some other resources that you found helpful on this topic (authors, books etc.)

Hi Harley,
After reading this I understood so much more of myself and the person I become when in the dating scene. I am a very independent person, who started fending for myself and building the very high wall around my heart at a very young age. I am terrified of commitment and getting hurt, but also of hurting others. I run the other way the minute things get serious and real. I also have a tendency to date needy or unavailable guys, leaving me feeling like I am not good enough for them. I have the tendency to move very fast in the first stage of dating, which is confusing to myself. I have even been told that I am so insecure that I have the potential to become a very needy, controlling and jealous person.
However, this is not the way I see myself at all. I have recognised a pattern I think, and what I do is that if I don’t scare the guy away by being to bold and moving to fast, I discharge of them when there is a demand of me becoming emotionally available and open up.
I think I am counter dependent, since I tend to push people away before they can hurt me. I definitely have an insecure attachment pattern going on.
But is it possible that counter dependent people move way to fast when dating?

I’m no doubt a person dealing with unresolved counter dependent issues. In addition to them, I’m a highly sensitive introvert who enjoys his freedom and space. I do miss the connection of having a loving person in my life. My conflict seems to be between my space and a need to connect. When I try to explain this dilemma, women get the impression that I’m using them. Nothing could be further from the truth. I don’t want to be alone the rest of my life. Yet I don’t feel that I should forfeit myself.

I had a traumatic childhood neither parents showed love or affection. Constant rows and fights between them so me and my brother fended for ourselves. We were mentally abused. Always told we were no one our oppinions don’t count. Etc. I was a very shy withdrawn child. My father left when i was 3 didn’t turn up for visits. Came back and the whole cycle started again. I felt abandoned and unloved. I was sexily abused by my fathers step dad. Later i was badly bullied at s3condary school. I thought i must be a really bad person for all this to happen. I realise all of this has affected my relationships. I feel i can only rely on me so i won’t get hurt. I am a people pleaser. Everyone comes to me with their problems. I vowed i didn’t want my children to go through what i did. But went to far the other way. Now they both have issues. That breaks my heart more than any thing. I never had coucilling.

Do you think that counter dependant people switch to co-dependant as a way of pushing the other person away because they love them and dont leave like they usually do ….they kinda get stuck because they really do love the person and want to stay but they are programmed to never get this close….do you know what I mean? Kinda like the unconscious is doing what the conscious can’t do at that time…

As a card-carrying member of ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics,) I’ve always considered that I am codependent. Recently, I’ve been reading about counterdependence and I realize that I have a lot more of those characteristics.
My family fell apart after the sudden death of my eighteen-year old sister from an undiagnosed heart defect.
I had the unfortunate experience of being only two-years-old when this happened. I suspect that my deeply grieving mother was emotionally unavailable at least part of the time as a result. Of course, I have no real memory of this, but it makes sense. I don’t find a lot online about the long-term effects of sibling death in this age group. I do recall her death but I know that I had no real concept of it at the time.
Thanks for giving me some things to consider as I continue on my healing journey.

I can’t imagine ever trusting anyone enough to erase the trauma of my childhood. I have healed enough to “manage” close relationships, including my husband. I have a close, open and loving relationship with my daughter. My main struggle is still very much with groups, as I think the dynamics are too hard to “manage” individuals and the group “family” dymanics, I’m lost in how to be with that, it’s very scary. My “friends” for most of my life have been people who needed me to support them, there has been no interest in me. Most of them do not know anything about me, and certainly nothing about my past. I have found when I do try to share my past, it scares people, they change the subject back to themselves. I am weeding out of my life those who do not want to get to know me and connect at a deeper level. I no longer want people in my life who are okay with me being a ghost in theirs.

This sort feedback, including telling you you are making it up, makes it more difficult for people like me to trust, to open, to heal in society. Perhaps this is another taboo for mental health, the ability of people to be open to the fact that tens of thousands of us each generation have not had that “good enough” parenting or family life, that our pain, suffering and abuse is not invisible and does not exist just because they don’t want to hear about it. We function as best we can isolated in our present by the out-of-ordinaryness and isolation of our past. Who wants to hear of abandonment, torment and suffering when they can talk about themselves, it seems.

As human nature is so flawed the idea of trusting a human being, other than my daughter, to be caring and honest to me instead of intrinsically self serving is hard to imagine. Counterdependent people like myself, just learned this truth very early on, that’s all.

Hi Harley, Thanks for the article. I am most certainly counterdependent, though I also have some codependent traits. I was raised by a narcissist and a codependent and have experienced all of the triggers you cite as likely to create a counterdependemt personality. My solution has long been isolation, refusal to engage in romantic relationships and living alone. This still serves me reasonably well as I work through my traumas in therapy. I have been diagnosed with CPTSD and don’t expect to be able to entirely release the protection of emotional unavailability in intimate relationships. Am I better off continuing to avoid ronantic relationships to protect myself and any prospective partner? Right now I have no desire to share myself with anyone but, should that change, what is the responsible thing to do knowing I can likely never be completely available or open with anyone?

Thanks Harley. Yes I am still in therapy. I’ve been working with my current therapist for about a year now. She is very grey area. The suspicion of being unable to achieve intimacy of a romantic kind is mine and it is only a suspicion. That’s why the question. I’m working with what I think is likely rather than what is possible. I’m a pragmatic sort of person. I base my ideas on past experience but am willing to consider new evidence and ideas as they arise. I never believed I would cease feeling suicidal but that has happened. After almost 4 decades of parental and spousal abuse, bereavement and trauma I wonder if it might be too much of a leap of faith to allow anyone that close or even if I will ever want to. I’m not afraid of isolation and feel no gloom attached to it. Relating on the other hand is rather terrifying and I’m not yet convinced it’s worth the risk. I suppose I have answered my own question here. Thank you for replying. It’s much appreciated.

I am totally this! I came upon this article because I want to change and dont want to at the same time.
I have believed all this time that I am a selfish bitch( so I’ve been called by acquaintances) that just hated the world and yet wanted to be part of it.
I have my sister as a roommate and even though we kinda had the same childhood I hate her for just having these healthy relationships with others and I have thought the solution is for her to leave so I don’t have to witness the normal. After all these years I have realized I can also have those moments but I meditate on the result and the thought of attachment and people never letting go makes me cringe!
And mind you this means everyone not just romantic relationships.

Thank you for this article Harvey. I find a lot of common ground with this write-up. I lost my father at a young age and while i was cheerful and happy as a child i ended up becoming more somber and reserved. Ever since that moment i have, partly subconciously, been keeping people at arms length, im mid 20s and have never had any close relationship out of fear of intimacy. Previously i have talked to a therapist about suicidal thoughts and the like, but i quit doing so because I didnt trust them to open up my entire being to. Perhaps i was looking at the wrong aspect of myself. This combined with my small case of aspergers makes for a person who seems normal and confident but is quite the opposite. Perhaps i simply feel common ground with this because quite a few of aspects of the human experience are covered, oh well. Thanks again, for the interesting read!

Kind regards

Thank you very much for this article. It has helped more than you know. I was already thinking to sleep with the fishes in December.

I grew up with a mother who has narcissistic traits, not full NPD, but very similar. Everything has to be about her, she is very childlike (emotionally immature), plays victim, and she’s very charming and super nice to my friends. Everyone wishes they were her child…except for her actual child. I have siblings and she’s used triangulation so often that I dislike them.

I recently broke up w my bf, of 3 yrs, bc he was behaving in ways similar to my mother. He is overly charming, very helpful, listens intently…to other people. He is dismissive, impatient, and distrustful with me. I have been unfailingly supportive of him during difficult times, listening and offering compassion, showing kindness and caring whenever he needed it. He has no empathy for me. I feel he sees me as an extension of himself, thus me expressing emotions is “too sensitive” and he needs a “rock”…although he is unable to be a “rock” for me.

I was doing an assessment of myself and I feel I am codependent, counterdependent and have manipulative tendencies (silent treatment, passive-aggressive) bc of an inability to set healthy boundaries. I’m not sure where to go from here except that I need to learn how to set boundaries? Bc I don’t want to keep repeating “dating my parent”. Thank you in advance for your advice.

It sounds like I fit the counterdependency.. My spouse is very much a server and tries to do a lot for me and I may tend to depend on him but if he does something I don’t like I pull back and feel like, he’s just like the rest of everyone that I feel let me down. I am lonely because I feel like everyone in my life has disappointed me. I tried to look at me to see if there was something I was doing so I just stated trying to lower my expectations and just not expect anything. I’ve pushed people out of my life for their disappointments and end up feeling very lonely and isolated. It’s starting to really affect my life, and has made me just want to be able to not need anyone but I find that’s impossible, especially when I feel so lonely and isolated. I don’t really know why I’m like this, I really don’t remember how my mother was when I was a child, but she’s super critical now as a person not necessarily to me. And I did have s trauma I guess, when I was young, my own brother hit me in my head causing me stitches. How dies that work when you are counterdependent but people really are constantly disappointing you. How do you heal from this.

So I am 39 and was recently married to someone who I believe is codependent. I think I may be counterdependent. My parents had me at a very young age and my maternal grandparents adopted and raised me. I seen my mom occasionally, and didn’t meet my dad until I was 17. My grandfather was an angry alcoholic possibly from ptsd from being in the Korean War, and my grandmother and I we’re at church whenever the doors were open, she and I have had the most constant relationship. I don’t remember a lot of my childhood, just specific moments.. I didn’t receive a lot of affection as a child, I did however get yelled at often by my grandfather and whippings that were sometimes overboard. He was also very strict. I left home at 17 y.o. My grandfather shot him self when I was 20. My mom was a drug addict until about 10 years ago. We now have a good relationship. My dad died about 10 years ago from lung cancer. I don’t like depending on others. I don’t trust others. This is my 2nd marriage. I have been divorced for 13 years. I have a beautiful 14 y.o daughter from my first marriage. I am also an introvert and I’m a barber/cosmetologist, so after dealing with the public I need some downtime to recharge.. my current husband is so clingy that when I ask for time to myself he whines and pouts and says things like I don’t feel like you want me anymore. Which is a turn off to me. Where is the masculinity? Confidence? He’s so insecure. And when I explain that I just need time to myself to just recharge he can’t let it be just that. He drags it out. He can’t find something else to do. He calls and texts over and over until I’m ready to lose it! He’s also jealous of my dog. He also talks like someone else sometimes, and that makes me wonder if he has multiple personalities. We were about to buy a house together, but I just decided I’m not signing anything with this man because I’m not sure I can trust this kind of instability. So I have taken my key back and he now stays at his own place. His mom has also called me and text me on his behalf which is also aggravating to me. I have been seeing a counselor for quite some time now as I was robbed and assaulted at work a couple years ago. And I truly believe he needs serious therapy. Any advice and help will be much appreciated! Thank you.

Hi,
I have a question for you: Although I have always been a counterdependent person (of course I was’t aware of it ), I feel like my partner is very codependent in his relationship with me but is also quite counterdependent and a white knight to his ex simply because she is a super codependent (like I’m his mum and he’s a baby but then he’s a dad to his ex) So: Is it possible that one person can be both codep and counterdep at the same time with different people?

Personally I think counterdependency is a completely rational response to being part of a species that has become collectively pathological and interdependent to a fault. At this point to get anywhere in life you’re forced to cooperate with others which requires assimilating to their personal preferences and idiosyncrasies which may or may not even be rational, all while pretending to be “nice” (whatever that means) so they don’t hate you. You’re expected to appease the egos of your superiors who are ultimately just using you to further their own interests while they pay you as little as possible. Once they’ve extracted all the value they can from you they will simply replace you with someone else and the cycle will just repeat itself until everybody is dead. Dependency isn’t even a choice anymore, it’s a forced necessity and a means of social control. The ability for individuals to forge their own paths or even survive without the use of counterparties, middlemen, or government-backed institutions is completely gone. Who benefits from all of this? A class of rent-seeking trust fund babies, social engineers, and psychopathic investors manipulating the markets and propping all these parasitic institutions up to preserve a class structure that is based on inherited wealth, abuse of power, corruption, exploitation, and pretty much everything but merit and common decency. Why cooperate or form relationships with anyone when pretty much everyone has sold out to this machine, either out of a perceived necessity, greed, or just plain old path dependency? Nobody questions any of this, they just follow the path of least resistance and operate. Individual identity has been replaced with tribal allegiance to a bunch of pop-subcultures manufactured by subsidized corporations to keep everyone distracted from deteriorating international relations and the growing number of threats to people’s physical health and safety as rates of mental illness and neurological disorders skyrocket alongside crime rates. At this point mental health issues are just a new personality trait people talk about to draw attention to themselves as social media usage has made their dopamine production completely dependent on external validation and excessive positive affirmation. At this rate we’ll probably start just normalizing violent crime alongside all the other debauchery we’ve normalized, and then we’ll start excusing people for it because of so-called “trauma” they claim to have when what they really have is an impulse control disorder created by their insatiable desire for instant gratification. We’ve successfully managed to destabilize everyone’s ability to regulate dopamine and serotonin production using photostimulation via screen usage, while making them dependent on praise for their compliance to arbitrary standards set by social engineers and psychopaths. On the bright side, it has never been easier to sell prozac and adderall in bulk quantities so maybe I should just buy some pharma stocks and enjoy the ride by profiting off the deteriorating neurological health of the population. It might sound unethical but our species seems to have abandoned any apparent commitment to an objective morality while we all get forced to hold hands and sing kumbaya so at this point I don’t even care anymore. Human evolution has peaked and the objective reality sucks, might as well just do a bunch of drugs to alter your perception of it and make it somewhat tolerable until the bubble finally bursts and our supposedly “civil” society finally collapses under its own deadweight.

This item is really spot on. Anyone reading, trying to work out their own or their partner’s behaviour please note: we counter-dependents DON’T KNOW we have it. All our thoughts, decisions, behaviours, are directed by very rational and considered thought processes. We are intelligent, competent: impressive in our ability to turn our hand to what needs to be done (rather than buy in or ask for help). The scarring is hidden deep, deep, deeply below any level of our consciousness. Don’t look, always, for one dramatic event as cause: it may have built up drip fed over years. In my case, it turns out, by being mothered by a woman who had herself been abused by her father for many years. The scar tissue that underpins conscious thought in the counter-dependent builds up thicker and stronger with each event, over the years, which reinforces their scarred world view . Counter-dependency is not a state of being to be studied intellectually simply to enable the ‘categorization’ of a (counter-dependent). Counter-dependence is the fundamental essence of the person in the same way as is a person’s race or cultural background or any other disability It is something to be accepted. The counter-dependent will have lots of good qualities too, but the scar that gives rise to avoidance behaviours never heals. Just as physical pain triggers bodily responses to protect and mitigate, so mental pain – which is unknown and unrecognized by the conscious self – triggers protective mental responses, which include making the conscious self perceive responses and actions as rational.
I had never heard of counter-dependency until I was 69. There was sudden self-recognition while I was doing the washing up one day. It blew my mind and left me shaking and weeping for a fortnights – until (unable to get professional guidance (remote area of UK)) the scar tissue slowly began to squash it all back down and seal up the ‘leak’ to conscious me.
Knowing does not mean I can change me. But I can at least (and do) warn others.

Thank you so much for this reply. When my mind ‘blew’ open with the sudden recognition of counter-dependency that had underpinned my life I tried very hard to get help. I absolutely knew I needed it. I was not an alcoholic so couldn’t go to AlAnon, and the nearest group therapy I could find was Bristol, 5hrs drive away. I was in such a state of shock – shaking, constant tears, for about three weeks, that I was unfit to drive all that way.
As a counter-dependent, sharing of myself in a group of other people who had issues was safer, made me less vulnerable, than a one-to-one . Where I could not hid. And then as a counter-dependent, how do you find a therapist you can trust to understand?…. Knowing intellectually – having the qualification – is one thing: understanding is quite another. The one time you simply cannot ask for – trust – help is when you absolutely need it. The dilemma of the counter-dependent.
Eventually I plucked up courage and went to my GP. I was in crisis: I absolutely did not need a quack. Of course there was no access to mental health services, but my GP took the trouble to come back to me with details of a qualified therapist who could see me privately. The first visit was a sounding out and I was presented with info concerning her accreditation. It seemed it might be ok. Unfortunately, on my second visit – of this accredited therapist, recommended by my GP – she gave me the business card of a friend of hers who was an astrologer, and proposed I had an astrological reading with this man before my next visit with her.
The good news: I was so shocked – that this could happen despite my best efforts – that it trumped the shock of recognizing the depth of my counter-dependency. And fortunately I wasn’t suicidal. Because being ‘rejected’ in this way, at a point of direst need, would most certainly have tipped me over the edge. I promise you, this is absolutely true.
So can you help me further? Phoning up a helpline is not something a counter-dependent can do when they are in crisis. Asking for help is not something we can do. And when I did pluck up courage to expose my inadequacy (shame) and ask for help and this is what I was presented with. One to one is too traumatic. So are you able to direct me to group therapy?
I have come to recognize that whilst lockdown was a wonderful time of contentment for an happy counter-dependent, it is actually tripping over into clinical agoraphobia.
Thank you for listening, and maybe this may help someone else.

I’ve been absent for a while, but now I remember why I used to love this website. Thank you, I’ll try and check back more frequently. How frequently you update your website?

Thank you for this article. Found it very interesting. Thanks also to all who have shared their perspective too.

It makes so much sense to have an equal and opposite issue to codependence. I ‘ignored’ codependence for years but now that I see it coupled up with counter-dependence, it all makes sense.

My family of origin swung between codependence and counterdependence.

There was love there, and definitely a desire for love and connection, but when anyone got emotional on any level, our parents couldn’t cope. My father also drank a lot, my mother smoked. They taught us through example that addiction was a necessary coping tool for dealing with difficult emotions.

I grew up believing I was ‘too emotional’ and thus not loveable.

Also my family were hyper critical. Nothing was good enough. It was either too expensive, too cheap; other people were too full of themselves, too shy; too needy, too aloof; etc…

I believed I was not good enough. Also, our mother used to criticise us, while praising our siblings. I thought she only loved my ‘happy’ siblings, but I see now how we all have similar issues as adults.

Yet there was also a lot of joy, conversation, humour and entertainment. Our home was welcoming and my mother placed huge importance on the family. And I also had an encouraging and loving grandmother, who loved to nurture the unique talents in each of her grandchildren.

I married a good humoured man with a very dark mind, multiple addiction issues and what presents as undiagnosed psychiatric issues. His survival mode was denial. I would have seen avoidant behaviour in him, but now as I work on myself, I see both of us swing between counter and codependency.

I am trying to recover through a 12 step programme. I am finding that the perspective of others is very helpful for me. Being listened to, and understood, with no comments or advice, is helping me on my healing journey.

For me recovery is about balance. It’s about facing up to the pain, while also celebrating the healthier parts of my life.

For instance. Some codependent people I know are very ‘likeable’. They work hard on being likeable and that can be an asset for them.

It becomes unhealthy when they (or I) ignore my own needs while obsessing about others… and abandon ourselves in the process.

Also for me, counter dependency has been a gift at times. I avoided relationships for much of my adult life.

In return I had a successful career, reasonable income, lots of interesting hobbies and a large circle of friends. I have happy memories of being a ‘settled single’ in my early thirties, in a great work place, with interesting hobbies.

I had freedoms that friends in relationships didn’t. But of course the downside is that I didn’t have a daily source of love when I was single, and it just fed into my belief that I was unloveable and no one could ever love me. I was lonely.

I am open to learning more about myself and am open to counselling. Unfortunately it can be hard to find available counsellors locally, which feeds into my ‘unloveable’ beliefs. Some counselling services only offer short term therapy, which does little to deal with decades of disfunction.

And of course, sometimes the lack of continuity can come from my side, because of my ‘busyness’ (an emotional wall I’m trying to address slowly) or just lack of finance.

Thanks again for this article on counter-dependence. I feel it has brought insight clarity and balance.