What is Machiavellianism in Psychology?
Dr. Sheri Jacobson
January 23, 2023
by Andrea M. Darcy
Worried you are a bad person? Or that someone you know, like a boss or ex, is on the ‘dark triad’ and is showing signs of Machiavellianism?
What is Machiavellianism?
Machiavellianism in psychology refers to a personality trait that sees a person so focused on their own interests they will manipulate, deceive, and exploit others to achieve their goals.
Machiavellianism is one of the traits in what is called the ‘Dark Triad’. The other two in the triad being narcissism and psychopathy.
More common in men than women, it can, however, be an issue for anyone. Even a child.
The history of darkness
The term itself comes from a reference to the infamous Niccolò Machiavelli. A diplomat and philosopher in the Renaissance, his most well-known work became ‘The Prince” (Il Principe). This notorious book shared his views that strong rulers should be harsh with their subjects and enemies. It suggests glory and survival were justified any means, even ones that were considered immoral and brutal.
By the late 16th century “Machiavellianism” became a popular word to describe the art of being deceptive to get ahead.
But it wasn’t a psychological term until the 1970s. This was when two social psychologists, Richard Christie and Florence L. Geis, developed what they called “the Machiavellianism Scale”. A personality inventory that is still used as the main assessement tool, this scale is now called ‘the Mach-IV test”.
Signs of Machiavellianism
Someone with the trait of Machiavellianism will tend to have many of the following tendencies:
- only focused on their own ambition and interests
- prioritise money and power over relationships
- come across as charming and confident
- exploit and manipulate others to get ahead
- lie and deceive when required
- use flattery often
- lacking in principles and values
- can come across as aloof or hard to really get to know
- cynical of goodness and morality
- capable of causing others harm to achieve their means
- low levels of empathy
- often avoid commitment and emotional attachments
- can be very patient due to calculating nature
- rarely reveal their true intentions
- prone to casual sex encounters
- can be good at reading social situations and others
- lack of warmth in social interactions
- not always aware of the consequences of their actions
- might struggle to identify their own emotions.
The Machiavellianism Scale
The Machiavellianism scale is a score of up to 100 resulting from a test that consists of a series of questions. People who score above 60 are considered ‘high Machs’. And those scoring below 60, ‘low Machs’.
High Machs are focused on their own wellbeing. They believe that to get ahead, one must be deceptive. They don’t trust human goodness and think depending on others is naive. Prioritising power over love and connection, they don’t believe that humankind is by nature good.
A low Mach, on the other hand, tends to show empathy to others, and is honest and trusting. They believe in human goodness and that if you abide by good morals you will do well in life. Too low on the scale, however, can see people being submissive and too agreeable.
There is also a ‘Kiddie Mach Test’ for children.
Related psychological conditions to Machiavellianism
Machiavellianism is considered part of the ‘Dark Triad’, being one of three personality traits that also includes narcississm and sociopathy / psychopathy. With each of these traits alone making someone difficult to be around, all three occurring in one person can make for someone that is quite dangerous to other people’s mental wellbeing.
Despite seemingly obvious connections between the three ‘dark triad’ traits and the prevalence of one trait often occurring with the other two, research has yet to be done to concretely prove a correlation.
Personality disorders where sufferers might have the trait of Machiavellianism include antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder.
A study on Machiavellian traits also found a high prevalence of depression in those with the Machiavellian trait.
What is the difference between the three personality traits of the dark triad?
All three traits are about trying to get away with putting yourself first to get what you want. But they each have a different focus.
Machiavellianism is most about manipulation for personal gain.
Narcissism is most about believing you deserve admiration, and to be treated differently than others.
Sociopathy is most about being cold and insensitive to others needs.
How is Machiavellianism treated?
The problem with malevolent personality traits like those found in the dark triad is that those who have such traits are unlikely to seek therapy or want to change. They usually only attend therapy if pushed to do so by family members. Or because they have committed a crime and have been told to attend therapy by court order.
For psychotherapy to be effective, a client needs to be honest. And they need to allow a trusting relationship to form between themselves and their therapist. Machiavellianism is a trait whereby a person is often dishonest and does not trust others.
And yet with a knowledgeable psychotherapist, progress can be made. A good psychotherapist with experience of the traits of the Dark Triad will see each client as an individual, and take into account their unique history. This will include the conditioning they have experienced and their unique life situation. A trained therapist can also identify and help treat other related issues the person has, like depression and anxiety.
Cognitive behavioural therapy is one type of therapy that is sometimes recommended for those with malevolent personality traits. It works on the concept that the way we think dictates our behaviour. By identifying and replacing disordered thoughts and feelings, we can then transform behaviour.
How do I know If I have the Machiavellian trait?
While you can find your score on the Machiavellian Scale by trying the test online, self diagnosis is not recommended. If you really are worried you have the trait a proper diagnosis with a mental health professional is recommended.
I am sure they have the Machiavellianism trait, what do I do?
The problem then lies in the fact that those who do have the Machiavellian trait rarely will want to change or seek help.
Of course it’s also easy to assume others have the traits of the ‘dark triad’ like Machiavellianism. And while some people do, it’s best not to jump to conclusions.
If, however, you feel you are the victim of someone with the Machiavellian trait, what you CAN do is seek help and support for yourself.
It can be overwhelming and cause great mental distress and damage to have such a person in your life. Their capacity to manipulate might leave you doubting your own instincts, or feeling codependently ‘addicted’ to having them in your life. A therapist can help you learn better self-care, and help you set boundaries. Or, if possible, help you extricate the person from your life for good.
Need help being a better person? Or feel you are a victim or someone else and can’t manage any longer? We connect you with some of London’s best talk therapists. Or use our booking site to find a UK-wide registered counsellor as well as online counsellors you can work with from overseas.
photos by helena, wondferret, Chris Isherwood, Joe Houghton
Andrea M. Darcy is the lead writer of this site and a therapy coach, helping people plan their therapy journey. She’s not actually a fan of the recent trend to label everyone we don’t like with mental health disorders, and thinks if you find everyone you know a ‘narcissist’ you need to look at your own relating issues.
I do believe hat I have a husband with all these traits. I began questioning why I married this guy a month into our marriage. Have been married 12 years and it has been the worst nightmare you could ever imagine. I just can not believe this that after reading this as well as researching almost everything I could find out here on behaviors, personality disorders etc. he fits all 3 of the dark triad to an extreme in almost all characteristics. Right now he is charged with 4th domestic abuse, managing to get out of a sexual assault by lying to the cops and fabricating a story to the officers that responded to the call- of me abusing him, which I could not believe when I first read his report at my initial appearance in court in company of my social worker who handed me a copy to read while waiting. I was so shocked I started crying and couldn’t stop I just couldn’t believe it there wasn’t even one word of it true.
Hi Sue, thank you for your letter, (we’ve shortened it for your privacy). It sounds like it’s been a truly awful 12 years for you. Sadly, it is not a situation you can control nor can you expect any change on his side. Ever. It sounds like you are spending all your time trying to understand him, which is a normal response, but the truth with such people is there is no way we can understand them. Do you notice nowhere in your messages is there any real worry for yourself? Or attempt to understand yourself? When really in this sort of of situation the ONLY thing you have control over is you. There is only one thing you can do – take care of YOURSELF, and understand YOURSELF. You need to get out of the situation, and hopefully by now you have and are in a safe place. As for worrying what his family think, this is again something you can’t control. It might be very frustrating, but you’ll have to learn to let go of caring about this as you put your attention on healing yourself. Find support to help you understand what childhood experiences led you to choose this experience, and to find the self-esteem to not again choose something like this. If you can’t afford therapy, read our piece on free or low cost counselling (https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counselling/low-cost-therapy-free-counselling-services.htm). Your local chapter of Mind might also be able to let you know if there is a support group for victims of marital abuse in your area.
Please tell whether the Machiavellian personality is prone to gambling and to making hugely expensive loans and deals without having the means to pay such loans or taking great financial risks and is unable to meet the obligation to pay their debts, will he also be on the run to get away from being caught? Is this type of personality also inclined to have short relationships and to exploit his partner for his own financial gain? Please tell whether such a person would have narcissistic and or psychopathic traits. Will this person resort to even running away from his family as is the case? Many thanks.
Machavellianism, narcissism, and pyschopathy are all part of what is called the “dark triad”. Many of the things you talk of have flavours of all, yes. Of course each case is unique. But to learn more, research the dark triad.
I got out of a relaltionship that failed due to problems on both sides. I want to mention my accepting responsibility for/my part in this nightmare, because it is part of recovering from all the abuses suffered: early childhood to adolescence, and this most recent affair and exposure to some intense, horrific, and constant abuse over a significant time duration. I am grateful just to be able to even comment on the subject here as there is really not enough time in this life to expand on even a portion of all that happened over a 7 yr period. . . How I got there. the unimaginable things that occurred, and, but also the beautiful rewards gained through therapy recovery, self improvement etc. I found that the woman I fell in love with and still love with all my heart, was afflicted an extremely complex multi dimensional mental illness that incorporated high scores in several categories of disorders including borderline, narcissism, hystrionic, sociopathic, psychopathic, and Machiavellian. Combine in the intensified insanity from chronic binge-type drinking, alcoholism, the frequent habitual use of stimulant type, non prescription drugs ( namely crystal methamphetamine ) and you have a condition that’s quite interesting. I blamed her for everything early on and most of it she owned but I wasn’t a nice guy when pushed into a corner. I didn’t know what to do used only instinctive means of coping or self defense more like. The fact that I didnt understand the illness and it’s complexity or that it was even present also added fuel onto what was a destructive, volatile, explosive fire, already burning outta control… It’s like I got blindsided with hurricane and then hit by a Mack truck simultaneously. I blamed myself. Ended up with scary type anger problems including self resentment in a huge way because I felt like I shoulda recognized it, seen it sooner, get away from it easier, and notice how much of an extreme danger she was and I was being to myself for any interaction or continued involvement with her and not getting some type of immediate help or permanent relief. I can say that I learned more from her, our situation and about life in general. . than I ever did from any doctoral level professor in college. She is currently serving time for felony crimes she committed stemming from addiction. (Edited for privacy).
Mark, what an honest, open sharing. But there is taking responsibility, and there is taking far too much blame after being involved with a highly manipulative addict. In this case it sounds like you are still veering to the latter. There is no need to not be who you are, which is evidently extremely loving, open-minded, and good hearted with strong values. But it is important after such an experience to seek support to boost your self esteem and heal. It’s no small matter to get involved with an addict and felon with sociopathic traits. It leaves one completely at sea, running scenarios over and over in your head, questioning what really happened, and swinging from love to fury. That is normal. Do seek support. You deserve it. And you can heal from this. But you need to give yourself the time, support, and space to do so. It’s probably one of the most overwhelming experiences possible, to love a narcissist or sociopath or felon. Be gentle with yourself.
As a therapist and friend of a couple of lifelong friends who are going through the divorce process, I feel the Narcissism and MACHIAVELLIANISM when pointing to the other partner is somewhat trending. I caution the productivity and purpose of needing to have these traits framed into a psychological disorder. We all probably fall somewhere on the spectrum’s of particular disorders in the DSM depending on the day, week, year. We are all fully aware of the personality and behavioral traits that are appealing and appalling of our partners and ex-partners. Just a thought.
Absolutely. After all, the DSM and it’s many ‘disorders’ are merely to define what is outside of society’s ‘norms’ and are very much aligned with Western mores. And we really do have all the same ingredients within, narcissist and angel. Most of us can decide what recipe we make of that. Obviously, as these people are your friends, and you clearly have fair judgement skills, the rise of any Machiavellian trait is temporary and situational. A disorder would only come into it if such traits are consistent, pervasive across all areas of a person’s life, and present since young adulthood. Even then it’s hard to say if it’s trauma that damaged the brain or a genetic occurrence. And although some would such people are beyond change or hope, and for the most part case studies might show that, who knows. Humans are still really a mystery and unique.
Hello, I very much appreciate the posts you have included above (at the bottom of your ‘What is Machiavellianism in Psychology?’ home page).
My situation is quite different.
For the past year my young daughter and I have been the ‘victims’ of a Social Worker who, having read the descriptions here, I believe suffers with this condition.
I don’t know whether this condition shows up in her dealings with other cases; it seems to me that in our case certain words may have triggered the ‘Machiavellian’ response in her.
A few years ago My daughter was the subject of a Child Protection Plan because a third party had, erroneously, claimed there had been possible sexual abuse.
When a referral was recently made to Child Services the current social worker (she has told me this) saw the words ‘sexual abuse’ and has acted ever since with regards to this.
This social worker has an online presence which tells of her years of (up until she was 52yrs of age) unhappiness which resulted in her being grossly overweight, using food and alcohol to ‘numb the pain’, shouting at her colleagues and then going home and shouting at her family. She has had me undergo first of all an assessment with a psychiatric nurse… when this didn’t give her the results she wanted she claimed in a Pre-proceedings meeting that I had ‘not been honest’ during the assessment. She then had me undergo a 5 (five) hour assessment with a psychologist and again, when this did not provide the result she wanted she has, in a Child Protection Conference, again claimed that I was ‘not honest’ with the psychologist.
She has now completed a Parenting Assessment in which she has made erroneous claims and at the end of which she gives her opinion as my child is suffering nothing but harm in my care therefore she thinks it in the best interest of my child to be removed from my care.
It sounds a very difficult situation for you. It’s not our field of expertise, but it does certainly sound that you should file a complaint through the appropriate channels and ask for someone higher up to review the case. We wish you all the best with it.
I grew up with a father who was miserable & alcoholic & a mother who was retarded both intellectually and emotionally & a grandmother who had Alzheimer’s & was sociopathic & a religious nut, and I still don’t know who I am. I feel like I tried to please them so much as a child that I lost myself. Now I read descriptions of personality traits & I see myself in all of them; I feel like I’m everybody, and nobody. After 20-30 yrs of realizing I don’t know myself, I still don’t know what to do.
I tried years ago to find a therapist, and sometimes I did have one despite not being able to afford a psychiatrist, but I have never met any therapist I really liked or trusted completely, or one I thought was intelligent enough to see me as I really am and help me to understand myself better. I’ve come to realize that for a therapist to help you, they have to be smarter than you are. The last therapist I saw was a student of psychology participating in a low-income program. I have given up on having a personal therapist. I read self-help stuff sometimes (like today), and it helps sometimes, but my life right now is in disarray and I feel like this society runs on money & without it one cannot get the help one needs, so I’ve been working 66 hrs/wk trying to refill my coffers which were emptied after I moved back in with my elderly mother & lived with her for 15 miserable years. You’re probably saying that was stupid, and I knew it would be painful; I did it because I felt I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if I didn’t, even though I didn’t want to (my mother was never a pleasant person to me, she bullied me & blamed me for her problems, long story but she has narcissistic, Machiavellian & sociopathic traits). She’s gone now, and I did my duty as her child to take care of her & I feel good about that, but it left me without money & too old to retrain & get a good job. I’m 4 yrs from Social Security and have a college degree but I’m working as a Chinese food delivery person for a neurotic couple; I’m so glad to get the work but I fear they’re gonna be closed down soon because of their inability to recognize their own problems. If anything, it’s made me more aware that I need desperately to get my own disorganized life in order.
I live in mama’s old house which is cluttered & dirty, I need to do so, so much work here I cannot even get myself to start. Look at me, right now, writing on a counseling blog when I could & should be cleaning up this messy house. (I get online a lot & I feel like if the computer wasn’t here I’d probably focus more on what’s right in front of me, but I need this soul-searching.) I have a repairman coming tomorrow morning to fix a Costco-bought washing machine that’s leaked for a year & caused my kitchen floor to rot out, first the Costco rep said they’d fix the floor too, but now they tell me it will depend totally on what the repairman says in his report tomorrow. I’ve been trying to get neighbors to help me with cleaning out the kitchen, I even offered to pay, but so far nobody has volunteered. Money, if only I had enough money I could hire a company. I hate money, I hate having to have money for everything. I hate being dependent on others for work to make money. I wish I could just live & never want for money.
I used to think I was an introvert, but now I think I’m a frustrated extravert; I like analyzing people and getting to know people as individuals, interacting with good people, but I don’t like getting emotionally involved or being with troubled people, I got enough of that growing up. I never got along with people very well, my mother used to pull me away from other children anytime there was a problem, she couldn’t help me, she wouldn’t even admit that I needed to be around people who could help me, just the opposite.
I’ve been told I have a personality disorder, but the person who said that was a ‘therapist’ (I use quotes because I would not recommend him to anybody for any job) who started screaming at me because I was trying to tell him I didn’t want to do the childish exercises he was giving me to do, so I don’t know if that’s correct. I’ve since been told informally by a professional psychologist that she had seen other patients who said he did the same to them, so I don’t think his behavior was my fault (he worked for the local Mental Health Center & he was still there years later, they didn’t fire him, they eventually retired him). My short experience with him taught me that therapists are often incompetent, & that having a degree does not make a person either competent or beneficial to society. But that didn’t help me. Most of my therapists have been incompetent. I’ve come to the conclusion that if I can’t afford $150+/hr, I’ll never get to see any intelligent therapist.
I realize I’m meandering here, it’s one of my traits, I’m unfocused unless I make myself focus. Probably ADHD, it runs in the family, my mother’s mother had it.
I started looking at this page because I googled the Dark Triad from another article, and I tend to write comments or talk to people I don’t even know about my problems. I talk to myself here out loud, I read articles out loud here in my bedroom, I think it helps me. I used to just read books, silently, as a child, lots & lots of books, now I feel a need to communicate, almost a desperate need. As a child, I was not urged to communicate, quite the opposite, when I did try to tell my parents I saw something wrong, they didn’t want to hear it. So I learned to dampen down my feelings & my words, but not my thoughts, I had an extremely active mental life as a child. Now I wish I’d been able to get away from my parents, I wanted to run away, I left once when I was about 4, the police brought me back. I learned I couldn’t get help outside the family. I felt trapped. And yet I stayed. They made me feel like they needed me, and I wanted to be needed. I didn’t leave until I was 26. By then my father was near death from alcoholism & my little sister was 16. I just gave up on them. I realized they wanted me there as a buffer between them, and as a doer to get all the things done that they should’ve been doing. I was an enabler in other words. So I got out. And then I realized I was alone with myself for the first time & I didn’t have the faintest idea how to find & live the kind of life I needed/wanted. I can’t tell you how many times I laid on the carpet of my living room floor & just cried & cried with my cats beside me.
I’ve lived alone for a long time now. Even when I moved back in with my mother after 17 yrs of living with pets, I still felt alone. And then I realized she had pushed me away from her when I was a child. She was emotionally retarded, she could not relate to me on an emotional level, or to my father. I started studying genealogy because I saw these traits in my parents & I wanted to know more about them (and by relationship, about me), I found out my mother’s family has a lot of sociopathy, especially on her mother’s side. And my dad’s has a lot of alcoholism & some neuropathy on his mother’s side. I guess I’m lucky to be as sane & balanced as I am. When I lived with my parents, I felt like often I was the only sensible, sane person in the house.
I need to get my life in order. How???? How do I even start?
First of all, we’d never say it was stupid to move back in with your mother. We believe that we all tend to do the best we can given the resources we have in any given moment, and we need to all honour and respect the choices that felt right. What comes across clearly here is that you are tremendously intelligent, hard working, and courageous, with a huge amount of resilience.But it seems thinking and analysing it is leading to more confusion, and more lack of self. In fact thinking seems to be your comfort zone. There is a real sense here that ‘being’ and feeling are needed. Have you heard of mindfulness? It’s a deceptively simple way to bit by bit break free of the torments of thought and learn how to access what you are truly feeling in any given moment. We have a very through guide to it for free here https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/mindfulness-help-guide.htm. Another idea is to search for a mindfulness group near you, if just to have a chance to meet and connect other interesting people who are ready to understand who they are and can inspire you in a way it seems that many other people sadly haven’t been able to. And keep trying. You’ve come through all of this, and here you are. We believe there can still be hope ahead.
I suppose Machiavellianism is a worldview, if you think about it. I’ve never actually manipulated anyone, but I do however believe that manipulation is not an unforgivable sin, but instead a thing that shouldn’t be your first choice. However, is it what you think or what you do that constitutes Machiavellianism?
Do. We all have dark thoughts. It’s normal. We are all human, with what Jung termed the Shadow. And manipulation is not an unforgivable sin, we agree – otherwise all the children aged 2 to 5 in the world would be in trouble!
Before you read further, full disclosure: I am a high Mach (but not a psychopath nor a narcissist).
Allow me to share my side of the story: I was neglected as a child and was bullied and abused aggressively by peers in my school years. I have ADHD and also a history of depression.
I also have Alexithymia and have a total lack of empathy for others. It doesn’t help that I cannot identify my own emotions either. Yet, I am an easy-going guy, I like people (until proven wrong) and I do not spend my time plotting schemes and thinking on how to screw people over.
Why am I telling you this? Because being Machiavellian is a condition of the environment one evolves in.
Indeed, I do not trust and believe in human goodness, nor do I need to rely on anyone.
Would I wish to be different, a trusty-happy-go-lucky-full-of-empathy lad? Would it be easier? I do not think so.
Machiavellianism, with all of its negative aspects, saved me from serious trouble, financial and otherwise. Not trusting other human beings can be an asset in the world we live in. I do have moral fiber and strong convictions. We’re not all evil-plotting-power-hungry-sadistic animals.
I thought it important to mention.
My 45 year old son is now in prison for the rest of his life due to s 13 year old sociopath, his step daughter who took all kinds of pictures of herself and sent them to him as well as around the world. He woke up with her giving him oral sex, she took pictures of it and turned him in as if it was his fault. She has no consciousness or empathy . The family has fallen apart and on welfare. They were a middle class family, he had a good job for 14 years and had never even had a parking ticket. All cos and the law can see is this charming little girl. Also he has 5 year old twins that he can no longer see and they live with this sociopath. Mom tries to keep them safe but it is still a dangerous situation. They are from Indiana and I so pray that someone can help
Thank you for this very useful article. I come from the fatherland of machiavellianism: Italy. I had a one-year relationship with an Italian machiavellian, let’s call him Dario. At first I was seduced by his charm and his position: he was the CEO of a SME enterprise. I also liked his fearlessness, as he likes adrenaline sports such as climbing. His utmost secrecy on all levels was evident from the outset. Dario’s skillful courtship (skillful becaus I was aware he was using PUA -pick-up artis- techniques from the start) resulted in us kissing on the 2nd date, have sex on our 4th date, and the two of us secluded in a luxury resort on the 5th date, far from home, where Dario imposed unprotected sex on me on the Saturday (and I said no), but then the next day he must have used other convincing techniques (by the way he masters NLP very well on all levels), including pretending to have sexual fantasies similar to mine. So the next day I caved in and had unprotected sex for a few months, based on my belief that we were a stable couple, but hey, no living together. Then he decided to have vasectomy, something we hadn’t discussed at all, but that was fine. After that, from the way Dario was keeping me out of the core of his life, I became more and more aware that in order for me to feel sexually safe, I had to reintroduce the condom. So we did, despite his resistance. A couple of times Dario tried to make me change my mind by giving me very expensive presents, and always tried to take me by surprise during arousal, to force himself into me without a condom. Again, I said no. The first time he gave in, the second time, he broke the relationship in the most heartless way: slowly withdrew interest, cancelled a week we were supposed to try and live together, at the last minute. Then when I literally begged to tell me the truth, Dario justified his vanishing by saying we could no longer hang out together because he was being threatened by a creditor of his company, who was using cross-revenge to force him to pay (so-called “vendetta trasversale”, meaning the creditor calls the mafia and 2 gangsters threat the debtor’s spouse or children (and I have a daughter)-hey guys this is all true. No real explanation of why it all ended. I mean, I was also very clear at one point, that I had boundaries (not only the condom, but also I don’t accept that a man fakes sexual fantasies in exchange for other favours, for example, he wanted me to have group sex with me). Me reinstating good boundaries was probably the main reason why he broke up. Too bad….It’s over. It had been a year of passion, he used to pester me with love messages every day, we had a great time together. But obviously there was too high a price to pay. I have been in pain for a few week after breaking up. Dario had been a sort of hero for me, fixing all my problems. A sort of dependency developed in me. The sense of emptiness he left in me by vanishing brings me excruciating pain. Slowly, I am building my life again. What’s most striking is, I have been lucid and aware of all that was going on, I thought I could somehow defend myself (perhaps I did to some extent), but it was the first time with a machiavellian. I had no idea how to recognise one. Now I know.
Sounds awful Luisa. It’s good you are rebuilding your life. Sometimes the drama and excitement of such a relationship can be so addictive that even our lucidity is overridden. Have you considered talking to a counsellor about it all? It’s certainly a lot to explore in the safety of the counselling room, and would also ensure you don’t fall into the same pattern in the future. Which always seems unlikely when we leave a relationship, but patterns are difficult to break alone.
It’s an interesting perspective, but it sounds rather lonely. And also a bit black and white. Is anyone really all happy-go-lucky? We haven’t met them. In fact happy-go-lucky is often a cover for low self-esteem. Maybe we are all just humans doing our best to get by, which is what you’ve done, and we honour that. But at the same time, we’ve seen others learn to trust and believe in human goodness despite horrendous childhoods/ADHD/depression. We didn’t call anyone evil plotting animals in our article, we are rather of the belief that there is hope for all of us. You included, we’re afraid! Thank you for your honest sharing and we wish you well.
I was recently in a situation with a guy I’ve known since 2008, he chased me for all these years though I’d never give in. As of early last year I went against my morals for this man knowing it was wrong. I asked him why he was so persistent of getting me and his response of ” You’re the only one who never gave me a chance. Last yr he became my first, where we had unprotected sex for eight times. Me knowing better I allowed myself to slip, be naive and give him the benefit of the doubt. During the time period he admitted to sleeping with someone else on his lunch break. I overlooked it and still continue sleeping with him unprotected. He’s in another country where he immediately starting having more sexual relationships with different females. I’ve cried countless of times from feeling used and broken by this man.He possess almost all the qualities stated above especially casual sex. I take responsibly for putting myself in that situation but he’s convincing. Any advice on how to let go of him?
That sounds really hard. We hope that you did find the help required.
Oh dear, it sounds really heart breaking. Yes, we’d suggest you work on your self-esteem with all your might, starting with some self-compassion. There is self-judgement, for example, in this message. And the more we judge ourselves and hold ourselves up against impossibly high standards, the more we seem to slip up, as if a part of is rebelling against being so under-appreciated and controlled. What would happen if you just loved yourself anyway, regardless of what you do? There are many ways to work at self-esteem, from reading books to starting a new project you are passionate about and getting out and meeting new people who share interests and passions. It’s also a great idea to speak to a counsellor or therapist if you can. Low self-esteem coupled with high self-judgement can lead to depression and anxiety if not dealt with. Good luck!
Thank you Harley Therapy for sharing this information online. I was reading an article about psychological surveys and evaluations of alt-right ideology and it mentioned Machiavellian tests. Since I’m also reading “Be Like the Fox” (review below) about Machiavelli’s “The Prince” and how it is interpreted, I searched for what Machiavellian is in psychology, thus finding your post.
I started reading this book because I had heard Machiavelli’s name in college and several other places but never knew what it meant. Then after reading this book, I’ve learned how complex he was and how many misconceive (per book’s author) his ideology but spoke to the ego of leaders to fail them, but not for Machiavelli’s personal gain.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/books/review/be-like-the-fox-machiavelli-biography-erica-benner.html
I also read another book “Productive Narcissist” which delves into the psychology definition of that abnormality. So, thank you again for your posting this information.
Glad it helped!
It does not bother me to hurt other people’s feelings or to lie to them or manipulate them. I use flattery constantly, and it works so easily. I manipulate people all the time for anything I want. People mostly irritate me and I use them for what I want. I don’t care about their stories or feelings or what they say or want. I have to pretend alot and copy how other people react to things so I don’t come off as a robot. Sometimes it disturbs me how I lie and manipulate and have very little empathy towards people. But most times I just know this is my way of life and I enjoy it *shrugs*.
I have a step father who excessively manipulates by lying .He will tell lies that are so much believing.
He manipulating my mother since from 12 years stating that i will earn cores soon .He started works but he never got money because they are illegal works .He started manipulating me saying that i will bring you certificates by next week and saying since from two years .I and my grand ma have at least some common sense so we won’t believe him. Also he is so jealous and super negative thinking , depression too.
All of his traits:-
1.Manipulates others by lying.
2.Excessive negative thinking
3.Depression
4.Anxiety
5.Revengive behaviour.
6.Some times a mind reader.
7.Highly narcissistic.
8.Anti Social some times.He will do any harm to you if get in his way.Most people said that he has a lot of affairs with women.They said he might be dangerous and be so be careful but still my mother believes him because he manipulates her even by crying.
8.He will cry often and not a happy person
9.Selfish(he earns 100,000 per month) and when i ask 200 per month then he refuse to give and thinks that i am showing interest on his money but not on him.
Many more traits.
Thank you for sharing. It’s brave to admit this side of you, and it is of interest that ‘sometimes’ it disturbs you. This would seem to show a part of you would like to try being a different way. We believe this is possible. It would not be overnight, it would require commitment and hard work, but if you found a talk therapist you felt you could trust over time you could start to see real changes. The kind of therapies that are recommended for machiavellian traits are what is called ‘third wave’ therapies, or ‘cognitive therapies’. We have an article that explains them all here https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counselling/what-is-cognitive-behavioural-therapy-cbt.htm. We do hope you consider it.
It sounds like you have real challenges with your stepfather. Unfortunately, you can’t change someone else. The only person you have power to change is yourself. Even if we love someone with all our heart, like you obviously love your mother, they are still adults who must make decisions – and mistakes – for themselves. So back to what is going on between you and your stepfather. What is it that drives you to be overfocussed on him, as it sounds like you spend a lot of time thinking about him? How could you use this energy to take care of yourself better instead? For example, with all the time you are obsessing on his flaws, could you look for a job and then make that money for yourself and also get out of the house and away from him more? Interesting questions to start with.
Hi, I am currently researching personality disorders for a psychology essay. I am interested in finding out if there is a link between Narcissism and IQ or emotional intelligence.
Hi Rachael, that is an interesting choice. We do offer general counselling tips here but can’t respond to research requests. First, if we did we’d be inundated. And second, we are not researchers and haven’t done proper studies on this topic. But we wish you the best with it.
I’m baffled to how a human can be void of feelings sad I can’t even find a reason of why mistreat another person especially intentionally.. Sadistic..
Helena we can’t jump to conclusions unless we have lived another person’s life. Many people with Machiavellianism traits experienced severe trauma as a child beyond what some of us could imagine. We believe there is hope for everyone.
Machiavellianism is not listed in the DSM5 nor any of its predecessors. Why would you print an article giving people the impression that this is a diagnosible mental illness that can be diagnosed and treated by of all things a counselor? The reality is that as a counselor you can not legally provide a diagnosis and if you were you would not be using pseudo-psychology to do so.
Hi Duane, we don’t. We clearly state it is seen as a personality trait and a term used in psychology? We are sorry you are so angry, but it’s misplaced and perhaps not helpful to anyone. Also, for the record, we are a British site. The DSM-V is an American guide, not the only one in use, and far from ‘the truth’. “Diagnosable mental illnesses’ are not actually illnesses. They are not things you see under a microscope. They are terms created by mental health practitioners to describe groups of people with similar symptoms who deviate from the current perceived ‘norm’ and as such are highly influenced by current culture, hence the DSM-V is constantly changing especially since it’s creation. And is not a Bible written by some great god. In fact it’s been called for reckoning often, too connected to the American tendency to overprescribe medication and make it all about insurance claims. Here at Harley Therapy we see people as people, not just a diagnosis. As for pseudo-psychology, if you want to get exact, barring neuroscience, all of psychology is ‘pseudo’. Research is based on studying people, which means they are far from exact! But the idea is to do our best to understand and help humans. We at Harley Therapy are committed to this cause.
”We can’t jump to conclusions unless we have lived another person’s life. Many people with Machiavellianism traits experienced severe trauma as a child beyond what some of us could imagine. We believe there is hope for everyone”. By quoting you I must admit that just like Jeni and Rasheem did in their previous posts, I find my self in all of the Dark Triad’s descriptions and at the same time fit into none of them. It is very confusing. I was raised in what I believe a Dark Triad home and the only thing that kept me going all these years, as annoying as it may sound is God. God and detachment alone kept me from going crazy. Always believed in truth (and some higher power). This helped me slide from numerous unpleasant situations. At the moment I am living with my narcissistic mother (my parents divorced a year ago) because I just got out of rehab and got no money or house. I am now focusing on myself instead of spending energy like I did in the past, thinking and analysing my parent’s negative personality traits. I have to rent my own place to get my life in order. I desire to help and understand others. During my stint in addiction I went from empath (feeling others’ emotions and having deep understanding) to having me behave in a way like you describe on Machiavellianism for me to find my dose. Sometimes I was a narcissistic empath (yes is a thing) and displayed sociopathic characteristics because I was overwhelmed from the amount of pain. I am an old soul too so there are good things I can focus on. Yes, the childhood trauma is beyond imagination for the Dark Triad people and their children. But I don’t believe I have any of the three personalities. I was naive believing I am doing some good for them. Munchausen syndrome by proxy and Stockholm Syndrome kept me from opening my eyes earlier and so I resorted to smoking the kind of weaponized cannabis folks use to smoke nowadays. I got really lost and depressed. Man’s soul is a mystery and an abyss but there is always hope even in the bleakest places. I believe I was born into this family in order to pass these hurdles to be the man I want to be. Past life actions and desires got me into this family but I don’t have to stay here forever waiting for them to change for me. Everyone make their own decisions and walk by them in life but not how they are brought up. We shouldn’t judge or criticise either. I wish you all to find what you are looking for as I wish for myself. My comfort zone is thinking so I am going to check the link about mindfulness. Thank you for that and for listening to me.
Hi George, it sounds like you have been a lot. Often, if we have parents who for whatever reason can’t provide us with the love and care we need as a child, we become children who always try to be ‘good’ to receive the attention we need to survive. But nobody is ‘good’. We are all ‘human’. We all have a huge range of emotions, and this Western tendency to divide ourselves into ‘good’ and ‘bad’ means that many of us end up denying our shadow. If as a child we had to always be good to get by, then we can turn to substances to suppress feelings we deem as ‘bad’, like sadness and anger. And then when it comes out, as it’s bound to, as, again, we are human… so when we finally have to let ourselves feel rage and anger and hatred and sadness? We can judge ourselves. So be careful of all these labels, as you are more than a label. Look, we don’t know you, but it’s likely you probably are not a narcissist or Machiavellian, you are just learning your shadow. You sound like a young man going through the process of learning all that he is. And that’s ok. It’s a long road, and sometimes it’s bumpy. We think you’d enjoy our article on the shadow….https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counselling/shadow-self.htm
I came to your site because Machiavellianism is the only trait I score highly in.
I think Machiavelli expressed Amoral views but was moral in expressing them.
I find those low in Machiavellianism who have some power will shoot the messenger, to value holding lofty ideals over behaving well and ascribe false motives to anyone that chalenges their self concept.
Good parents are very Machiavellian, one of my mums difficulties was a tendancy to see things in black and white rather than shades of grey, this is the world Machiavelli lived in.
My father has always been so unable to countenance that some of my sisters behavour might have needed intervention that she has had numerous bad relationships.
I worked in a very good organization. It was a blessing for me. I was receiving a good pay. The business was expanding and I was told during my interview itself that I can aspire for team management. It was a suggestion they came forward with. There was this successful candidate who started her plots. She used to carry my lunch boxes in front of senior management as if I’m unable to manage by distracting me, gaslight me by claiming that I look younger not as a complement but in comparison to her as not having such propositions in life, discuss my wedding and so on. Ever since she got the promotion she stopped it, but had some cyberstalkers harming me. She took contempt on them speaking of a wedding with my uncle’s son as he was even elder to me. So she started emailing folly about me like my voice was vety loud and she will give me a memo when I was not at all speaking. When I try to rise for myself they use to suppress me using her hierarchy. However the organisation was good. She used to be regularly chided for her gossiping habits by MD of the company and she used to fear her. Yet she never respects her in manner she speaks with men. She developed a rho over her management potential and started manipulating situations and practice her coaching strategies at me without disclosing. She also had some grandiose traits. Upon reading about Machiavellianism and the way these cyberstalkers treat me, I started to wonder whether she has combination personality of narcissism and Machiavellianism.
Hi Rachel. It can be easy to assume someone has a personality disorder if they are making our life hard. But this is not always the case. If she truly was on the dark triad it would cross all areas of her life, not just work. Some people are just ruthless in their career. And whether or not she is a terrible person, you can’t change her, unfortunately.What is more interesting to us is what you are doing to help yourself cope during this time and how you might find your way through this situation. It’s normal to want to figure out how someone can be so horrible, but try not to let that take all your energy or headspace as then she really is winning, isn’t she? Use your energy for yourself. Again, you can’t change her, but you can bolster your coping capacity and find ways forward or even away from this situation. Are you getting any support? Have you considered counselling? Or working with a professional careers coach who can help you see other options and your legal rights here? Best, HT.
When I met my wife in college my initial feeling was that she was someone to steer clear of. She was heavily addicted to pills, very cynical and fake. She was having casual sex with almost all of my friends on my floor of the dorm. She started having sex with my best friend who was engaged to a girl in another state. He approached me a few times and said that she thought I was hot and wanted to have a 3some. I was not interested but they got me really drunk at a party and took me back to my room and we started to have a 3some, which turned into me and her going at it and him sobbing and leaving. She stayed that night in my room and moved in with me the next day. She told me that she she had been searching for love but that before meeting me she was just used by all these guys since she was a teenager, that she was thought she could get love from giving guys what they wanted but that no one had ever loved her until me. I tried to keep her sober for the next 13 years. She would lie to me constantly, about drugs but also about really anything. It occured to me repeatidly that she seemed to lack any real guilt about anything she did. She didn’t feel bad about lying, stealing or cheating on me, until after she got caught and then she would be so manipulative, telling me how much she loved me, needed me to protect her, how I was good and I could fix anything. When she was covering for stuff and hiding drug abuse or infidelity she would become so hateful with me for asking her about it. She would try to convince me that I was insane and imagining things, that I just couldn’t be happy, that I had to ruin our happyness. In all the time we lived together she never once had a legitimate nice thing to say about anyone, not her coworkers, her family, my family, our friends. It was like she secretly hated everyone. She was very social and sweet, but insencere. She wanted me to get her pregnant but I didn’t think we needed a child yet so she secretly went off her birth control and got pregnant. I never thought I wanted kids but holding my daughter for the first time, I just knew that she was innocent and pure and she needed me. Wife posted lots of pictures of the baby and on social media our life was perfect. I was the perfect stay at home dad, she loved me so much etc. In reality she seemed to have nothing but contempt for our child by the time she could crawl. So I stayed home and wife went back to work. She was always changing career fields and burning bridges with bosses and coworkers when she would get caught lying or stealing pills from desk drawers. She usually worked in sales positions, commission, Insurance salesperson etc. She would brag to me about how easy it was to sell people things they didn’t even need. She was proud of it. One time she pocket dialed me from work while I was watching our daughter and I overheard her having a very hurtful and inappropriate conversation with her female coworker. It was sexual and she was talking about me like I was a loser, like I was a joke. When I confronted her about it, she denied everything, then accused me of tapping her phone and cheating on her. Then she got really drunk and told me that she was going to invite her coworker over to have sex with me, like as if that would make us even or something? I was shocked and disgusted, I’d never even met this women. I cried. She told me it was just a joke and that what I’d overheard was just some nasty girl gossip and she admitted she vented and trash talked me that once but didn’t ever do that stuff, that she had a pill relapse and she needed me to believe her, to teach her how to be good, she needed me to fix her. She got pregnant two more times even though she swore she was on birth control. She kept using pills during the pregnancy but would make me doubt myself. Even if I found them in her purse she would maintain that they were in the purse when she got it. She would look me in the face and beg me to believe her, she would even offer to take a drug test, go buy a test and ask me if I really needed her to take it couldn’t I trust her? And then she would fail the test. She would hold onto the lies so far, she would go to any lengths to trick me, like it was a sick game. She would try to provoke me into hitting her sometimes. After one horrible and pointless argument about drugs and secrets, she dragged me into the bedroom and got on her knees and asked me to beat her. She said that she knew I wanted to and she deserved it. She cried and begged me to beat her, I just hugged her and told her everything was going to be ok and we were going to get through it. She would seduce me and use sex daily to try to distract me when I wanted to talk about honesty. If I told her no she would get so hateful and accuse me of witholding affection, that I was abusing her emotionally. She would flatter me every day, almost to the point of worship, tell me how good I was in my heart, how attractive I was, how I was the best father and she couldn’t believe how lucky she was, how she needed me. I knew that she lacked what I would consider a since of right and wrong, she didn’t seem capable of real guilt but she would love bomb me so hard I had to believe her. She had our 3rd child last year. I was always alone with them, waiting for her to get home and then being disappointed when she came home intoxicated. I stopped playing her games. The kids needed me, I more and more just stopped engaging with her and fighting with her. Last Christmas she stole all the surgery medication out of my parents dresser and just went nuts, she would follow me into the bathroom and try to get me to confess to cheating on her. She would block my way out and try to seduce me, then she would scream that I was choking her when I would just try to squirm past her and get out of the bathroom. She told my parents I was abusing her and claiming she was on drugs to hide the abuse. She challenged them to drug test her and then when they produced a test she said that she’d taken a few pills and she was sorry for lying. A couple weeks later our 2 year old found her drug stache under the table and brought it to me, she thought it was candy and wanted to eat it. I told her I was done, that I couldn’t do it anymore, that I was going to take the kids and leave if she wouldn’t go back to rehab. She said she would, she asked me to go pick up dinner to celebrate, that everything was going to be ok. When I got back she was gone and so we’re the kids. She got an emergency protective order against me and told the police that I was armed and dangerous and had made a death pact to kill the police in a blaze of glory. They made me leave our house and all of the family pets, she had told them that I abused the pets too. She moved to Kentucky with her millionaire grandpa’s money. She had wracked up enormous secret debts. I didn’t get to see my kids or hear from them in months. She told the courts that I beat her in front of the children, that I kept her hostage and wouldn’t let her go to the hospital after I would beat her. I wasn’t allowed to talk to her but she would call and txt me and just toy with me, tell me she missed me and loved me and then she would call in the middle of the night and just laugh at me. The courts refused to do anything, they wouldn’t even drug test her. She died from an overdose a few months ago, with the kids sleeping outside the bathroom she locked herself in.
I don’t even know who I am anymore. She had problems but I loved her, she was family. I’ve spent the past 13 years trying to fix her and it was just a game to her. She didn’t even delete me from FB, she posted about how she survived domestic abuse, how I kept her hostage for all these years and she saved the children from me and she would also post all these sexual things with other guys. She left the animals at our house, they starved to death. Now it’s forclosed.
I hurt so bad all the time. I have no self esteem. I cry everyday when I wake up. I don’t know what’s real anymore. I just replay everything in my head over and over again and try to understand what I did wrong. I try to understand how after 13 years together she could do that to me and the kids. Was I really ever good, smart or whatever flattery she gave me or was it just heartless manipulation. I used to tell her everything, I kept no secrets from her ever. Nothing in my life even has meaning anymore. I do things that I think will impress her or that she might be proud of and she’s gone. She hated me so much and I just don’t understand it. Today is the first time I’ve read about this disorder and she had every single symptom. I just cant understand why or how she could be so cruel. I don’t trust anyone. I’m so alone. I feel so guilty all the time. She tried to make me kill myself. Everyone tells me that she was evil and that I should be glad she’s gone. She may have been evil but I loved her. I don’t know what to do. I haven’t seen her in almost a year and I’m so alone. I can’t even talk to women, it feels like I’m cheating on her. She didn’t even care about me. After all we went through, having 3 kids together
She just threw me away like garbage and jumped straight back into casual sex with strangers. It’s like she got off on my pain. I don’t know if I can heal from this. I knew she was heartless at some level of my mind I just couldn’t fix her. I tried to understand, I tried to be her therapist. She had a lot of childhood trauma, at least she said she did. I don’t even know what’s true anymore. The last person she was talking to the night she died was the guy she told me raped her when she was a middle schooler. She hated him so much, she told me that was the reason she got hooked on drugs. Then after she destroys my life and abandons me, she just goes to the guy she told me ruined her life and stole her innocence? I wonder if she kept a secret relationship with him our whole lives. There were so many times when she would be with other guys and she denied it but I could tell she was lying, I just didn’t want to believe.
I’m in therapy but it doesn’t help. I can’t even talk to people about this because I don’t know how to talk about it. I love someone who abused me and hated me and died. I don’t know how you move on from that.
Codey, this is a terrible thing to have lived through, there is no doubt about that. Give yourself credit for still being here, still standing, and for being in therapy. Therapy is not a miracle, it takes time and commitment, and sometimes it’s hard as hell. But it does work if you stick with it and have a therapist you feel you can learn to trust (after all this no chance you’d trust a therapist for quite some time of working with them). The problem is you are in a hugely traumatised state, likely with a sort of PTSD. Where you are running on cortisol and your brain is addicted to pain (and her). We bet you are jumpy as hell, have mood swings, anxiety, paranoia, scattered thinking, sleep and eating patterns are a mess… possibly often sick with colds, flu, or other medical issues…. sound familiar? So you need help to stabilise. Talking this through again and again with traditional forms of therapy at this time, in our opinion, might only going keep you traumatised, and keep you addicted to pain. You really need to work with a trauma informed therapist, not just any old therapist, someone with a deep understanding of trauma, not just someone well meaning. We think you might recognise yourself in our article on ‘trauma bonds’ https://bit.ly/whatistraumabond. We’d strongly guess, you see, this didn’t begin with her. We would imagine this belief you deserved pain or that pain is love, this confusion of love and pain, was already a state you were in when you met her, which is why she chose you as you were probably giving off all signs that you were easily victimised as you grew up with trauma. Note you said yes to a threesome you didn’t want, you stayed with a girl you didn’t like, only someone who was already in a damaged state would make those decisions. Trauma bonds come from a childhood where you were taught this is ‘love’, that love hurts, that your sole purpose is to help others, that unless you please others you are valueless. This is all what is known as codependency, when we have so little value we latch on to someone and try to please them in order to form an identity. So no matter how nuts she was, she was the perfect socket for your plug. You arrived with your own issues that matched. In fact she was a substance addict, but you were a people addict, she was clearly your addiction. Remember an addiction is an unhealthy substance we can’t walk away from that controls our life and dominates our thinking. Does this not perfectly describe your relation to her? And now here you are, having lived through what sounds like literal and utter hell on earth, but what actually deep down made you feel alive, as a drug will. We highly suggest a form of therapy that does not make you go over all this and keep you traumatised and pain addicted, but instead helps your brain get down off the pain and drama high and stabilise. Such as EMDR, BWRT, or clinical hypnotherapy. These are brain training therapies that can seem odd but work, designed to detach your brain from the stress response so you can actually stop always being in fight, flight, or freeze response and can actually start to think straight again and feel grounded. The next step might be a round of CBT, a short term therapy, where again you don’t go over things endlessly but instead learn how to control your thoughts so they don’t send you spiralling constantly, CBT is good for breaking addictive thinking. Only from there would you would be stable enough you could properly benefit from a longer term therapy that helps you regain a sense of self by exploring the roots of all these choices. If you are instead already in a therapy you are expected to endlessly talk about all this, we can understand why you aren’t seeing progress, it would just keep you addicted to your pain and destabilised. Hope that makes sense. As for how you move on from all this, well not easily. But we do think it’s possible. It will take a hell of a lot of self honesty and courage. You’ll need to see where you played a part, how this fed into your own needs, and you’ll need to find the you buried beneath all the endless pleasing and bring him to life. You might surprise yourself. You might be someone you never knew you were. You might regain your personal power and help others, all the thousands of people out there needing help, unable to leave brutally violent and abusive relationships as they, too, are addicted to the pain and convinced it’s love. Sorry if this isn’t sugar coated but we sense that’s the last thing you need. In other words, now is the time to stop obsessing on what she was and wasn’t and instead the time to start on obsessing what YOU are and aren’t. This is actually about you, not her, it always was, and only when you make it about you are you going to advance. You can’t change her. Not when she was alive, certainly not now she’s gone. You are the only person you have power over. And as for whether the issue was that she was Machiavellian or not. She was an addict with a traumatic past. Her sense of self was fractured. At times yes she might have fit a Machiavellian profile, but trauma and addiction is far more complicated, people are in ‘survival of the fittest’ mode over ‘I will destroy for pleasure’, if that makes sense. Addicts can be genuinely loving when they are out of the addiction, but the addiction makes them a Jekyll/Hyde person. But again, time to figure yourself out, not her. Best, HT. p.s. if you like reading, you might find the classic book on trauma ‘the Body Keeps the Score’, by Bessel Vander Kolk, interesting. And there are many many books on trauma and codependency that might give you ‘aha’ moments. The classic codependency book is called “Codependent No More” by Melody Beattie.
I’m a supervisor and have a team of mostly ladies. My 2nd in charge destroyed the team and turned everyone against each other , without me realising until too late.
Her personality traits are inline with narc’s and Mach’s . Senior management don’t understand. Luckily my direct manager does as he was married to someone similar for 13years. He didn’t recognise it either. 2 years she played her games without being detected.
She scares me to death. And still is able to be on the team without any reprimand as evidence is so hard to pin down. It’s really messed up.
Matt
thanks for info
I am a Life sentenced prisoner having spent nigh on 25 years in prison but now released.
I have undergone so many CBT courses that I have been accused of “being able to intellectualise the answer to the question he expects to be asked” and “(of) talking like a text book!” Frankly, it is believed the courses I did makes a person more dangerous so why were these courses administered within a prison environment?
Why my pre-amble? Because throughout these courses, I have been labelled narcissistic; egocentric; psychopathic; … The list goes on but I will not. Why? Because after reading this blog, I am surprised it has not been suggested I am on the Machiavellian Spectrum – perhaps, one day, I will be!
thanks for info.